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Donald Trump wins US election

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#1 Robo


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Posted 09 November 2016 - 07:45 AM

I'll probably have more to say later.

#2 Robo


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Posted 09 November 2016 - 10:25 AM

I'm going to put a disclaimer up front. This might be long. And it might hurt someone. And if it does, I'm genuinely sorry that it did. But I'm not sorry for saying these things. Unless I'm wrong. And I might well sometimes be.


I live in an Americophile society. When a store is selling at a discount here it's not called an Uitverkoop, it's a Sale. Everything American is cool. TV channels show American shows, movie theaters Hollywood movies, and so on. When American elections are on like the last couple of months it is as important if not more so than elections over here. I live in a bed perfectly made to love America and everything American.


But I don't. In fact I resent most of what makes up America.


Most Americans I've met both in person and otherwise are nice people. I would say they're open and pleasant to talk to. The problem then is of course I'm not very likely to talk to the average American. Which from all the information that is accessible to me seem like a people of an incredibly greedy and contemptful nature. I would not encounter them because their only interest is themselves. You cannot speak to them because they will not listen. The only thing they listen to is what they were taught from a very young age, which is the American flag and the American anthem. And even then only when it suits them.


America is a nationalist oligarchic police state that beats its chest at the world at being the best and introduces its presidents at state dinners as the "Leader of the Free World", yet trusts none in this world and routinely demands them to clean up the Human Rights-violating mess it itself creates. America demands respect yet does nothing to deserve it. Americas principles ring as hollow as its average citizen's head.


And I don't get it really. What is it you want America? Clearly you don't want help or advice. Every time I've tried to give it I'm always told that since I'm not American, I won't understand.


But what you don't seem to understand is that sure, it's all fine and dandy to project a rainbow on your presidential palace and pretend all the problems are over, but that's just a facade. I.e. gay marriage was legalized in a dozen other countries more than a decade ago. But you don't care. Because a country that the average person knows more states of than the average American knows countries on planet Earth doesn't have to care about others.


America doesn't care about others because that is their culture. From a young age they're taught it is kids versus adults, nerds versus jocks, sports team versus sports team, men against women, right versus left, black versus white.


In that sense it is irrelevant what vote you cast. You have made your bed, now lie in it. As a person I have grown sick and tired of Americans who abandon things after poisoning them. I have grown sick and tired of the spineless "It's their fault." after Every Single Thing that goes wrong in America. No. You laughed at the Big Bad. He was a TV star, everything was fine. It was entertainment. Until it was not. And then you abandoned and othered those you disagreed with. If that is America, so be it. But if you are then suddenly faced with reality, you don't get to say it was an accident, or someone else's fault. It's no one's but your own.

#3 Hanz


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Posted 09 November 2016 - 05:38 PM

If you voted for this piece of human garbage you are complicit in his racism, sexism, rape, xenophobia, homophobia, transphobia and murder. 



People are already dieing because of this. If you think any of this is ok you are not welcome here.

#4 Ego



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Posted 10 November 2016 - 05:14 AM

I didn't vote for him, obviously. He's repellent. Everything he's said and done makes me cower.


The issues going on are a hell of a lot more complicated than ordinary bigotry. From everything I've seen, most folks didn't vote Trump because of hate. They voted out of fear, and a lot of these people are so afraid that fear overrides whatever issue they have with that hate. And it's not fear of minorities. They don't have much in the way of fear of minorities, because most of them don't even encounter minorities. Trump voters are rural voters, by and large. City-folk vote blue, and it was an especially stark divide this election. City-folk also tend to get all the attention. The discontent of the countryside flared up with the Tea Party only a few years ago, and you can bet Tea Partyers are Trump voters. Big government means taking money out of their (fairly homogenous, generally lower middle-class) communities and into far-off places, while very little support comes back to them. Not just on an individual level, but on a community level. They see their jobs disappearing, and not just going to people they consider outsiders, but disappearing entirely as the means-of-production are exported or automated. They're being told to lay down their arms, despite the fact that the police can't effectively help them and they feel the need to help themselves. None of these issues can be combated directly - they simply don't have the power to do anything about them. And that's the problem, the feeling powerless. Trump made them feel important and powerful. He took their issues and made scapegoats out of minorities, faces that people could face. And their communities lack the diversity and cultural experiences to actually recognize an innocent being scapegoated.

Mix into that concoction of fear the religious issues (oh boy) and the general uneducation (and the fact that city-folk, ie powerful folk, make them into laughingstocks over it, despite needing these working class people) and a major discontent with how the country has been managed for the last 8 years (as pretty much none of Obama's Hope and Change made it out to them) and the fact that Hillary clearly represented the status quo (or worse, as he yelled very VERY loudly to try to vilify her too, with the media not helping that very much), they swallowed Trump's darkness and embraced him as a force for change.

He won't fix their issues. That doesn't seem to be what Trump wants. And that just means they'll be equally desperate in 2020.


The countryside lacks understanding and support, and since Trump isn't going to give it to them, we need to make that happen independently of him. With the entirety of the federal government in his party now, we can't even rely on the rest of the government. I can only hope that enough of the republicans who made it to congress are of the same stock as the republican voters who crossed the party line this year.


I'm not defending Trump's active supporters. Especially the ones who speak loudly do so out of hate. But over half of the country voted for Hillary, most of Trump's support comes from fear, and only a small subsection comes from that ignorant, greedy, dangerously hateful subset. The "average American" you describe Robo isn't really all that average, and that's why you probably won't talk to one. They're just afraid that their government and the entire country's culture is trying to leave them out in the literal dust.


Trump is a symptom. The bigotry is a symptom (from many, many diseases).


I know - I NEED to know - that the people of this country aren't just the monster who's sitting on top now. And I really do believe that. I can only pray that my belief lines up with reality.


And I feel somewhat guilty posting this, an attempt to explain and understand the forces behind the evil, because I know I am safe. I'm white, and an American citizen, and a cigender male, and educated, and I live in an extremely tolerant and caring and diverse area, and only a handful of people in my non-internet life know that I'm bisexual. I'm also a Canadian citizen and live three hours from the border, meaning I have an escape route. I've been sitting here looking at this post for 15 minutes agonizing over whether to post it, and I'm just going to do it. Sorry if even this puts me over the line.

#5 Robo


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Posted 10 November 2016 - 09:08 AM

Ego, there is no shame in trying to understand those who you oppose. Even vehemently, even if they're reprehensible people. I think the things you say are smart.


I'd say more but I'm afraid it would become snide and cruel way too quickly.


I appreciate everyone who voices their honest opinion on this, no matter how much it feels like you're standing alone. I will stand with you to defend your right to say it, even if I disagree.

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